MEB Timeline

[AlmostThere]

I just wanted to share my full timeline, since this site has helped me out quite a bit.

Reason: Mental health/back pain

Code 37 applied - 27 Aug 23
MH NARSUM complete - 18 Oct 23
IRILO with PCM - 7 Nov 23
CIS Signed (Do Not Retain) - 8 Nov 23
Medical NARSUM complete - 28 Nov 23
Full MEB (AFPC) notification - 4 Dec 23
Meeting with PEBLO - 6 Dec 23
MSC phone call - 19 Dec 23
C&P Exams (3 total) - 9 Jan 24 - 7 Feb 24
First 2 DBQs were uploaded to TOL same day except for fully body exam DBQs, they were uploaded a week later.
PEBLO received all exams - 19 Feb 24
Signed AF IMT 618 (Referred to IPEB) - 29 Feb 24
Case submitted to IPEB - 1 Mar 24
Claim closed on VA website - 18 Mar 24
myFSS notification - 20 Mar 24 // PEBLO also notified me of proposed ratings *100% VA [99.65% w/ VA math] / 70% DoD TDRL*
Meeting with PEBLO to review findings - 21 Mar 24
Signed 1180 & returned it to PEBLO - 28 Mar 24
Received retirement order - 10 April 24

 

[3E3Cripple]

Do you mind if I ask, was it just general back pain or like herniated disc stuff?

 

[AlmostThere]

Do you mind if I ask, was it just general back pain or like herniated disc

It was ultimately listed as low back pain, but in my NARSUM they went into detail & connected it to my herniated disc, degenerative disc disease, and arthritis. They were also deemed as unfit conditions in my case.

 

[3E3Cripple]

Awesome. Thanks for the reply. I’m in the very early stages of the process and my initial condition is my back. I denied back fusement after getting injections and months of physical therapy with no relief. I’m skimming these posts for anyone that has similar back issues

 

[AlmostThere]

Awesome. Thanks for the reply. I’m in the very early stages of the process and my initial condition is my back. I denied back fusement after getting injections and months of physical therapy with no relief. I’m skimming these posts for anyone that has similar back

I actually went the same route with my back. I also tried the chiropractor. The RFA procedure seems to provide me a little relief followed by the cortisone injection. Best of luck & I hope everything works in your favor.

 

[MrsG]

Awesome. Thanks for the reply. I’m in the very early stages of the process and my initial condition is my back. I denied back fusement after getting injections and months of physical therapy with no relief. I’m skimming these posts for anyone that has similar back issues

Hi there!

I guess we're all back pain buddies, lol. I have arthritis in my spine, 2 bulging discs, and 1 herniated disc. I completed physical therapy a while back, then went straight to pain management. After completing 2 rounds of injections that mimic the effects of this procedure, I will go in for nerve ablation in a few weeks. Nerve ablation is the same as RFA mentioned above. I would consider checking it out, as the results can last a few years. A piece of advice from my physical therapist that I plan to stick with is to refuse surgery until I am older. She said I will have to have disc replacements at some point, but with the rate that spinal surgery has improved over the past 10 years, it is better to wait for it to improve more and more. Also, if you are near one of the handful of DoD hospitals that have chiropractic care, see if you can get a referral there! My plan of action is to get enrolled in VA Whole Health as soon as possible because they provide massage therapy and acupuncture.

Also, getting surgery while undergoing a MEB can delay your process so it was a good call to deny the back fusement.

 

[OrdieChief]

Back pain sucks, and it seems the military doesn't make it any better. Same case here as some of you above. Being med-boarded for lumbar spine and radiculopathy. I applaud you all for refusing surgery as long as possible. I tried to refuse it as long as possible, but ended up having it last March and it ruined my life. The full details are in a post that I made, but I tried everything before having surgery. Six epidurals, medial branch nerve block, RFA at 6 facets, aquatic therapy for a full year and just continued to get worse. Finally elected to have a microdiscectomy in March and woke up from surgery way worse than I went in. The surgeon hit my L5/S1 nerve root bundle at the DRG with the high speed burr and rendered my lower left leg basically inoperable. There was also a bacteria introduced into the surgical site that went undiagnosed for 4 months. This completely dissolved what was left of the disc and infected the L5 and S1 vertebrae. I was hospitalized when they found it and given a PICC line and strong antibiotics for 8 weeks through IV. Once the infection was clear I was sent in for a fusion and facetectomy. Basically they completely had to cut out the joint between the two vertebrae and bolt it all together. To this day my lower left leg still doesn't work and I have no control of my foot. My left leg has atrophied noticeably compared to the right and I have been told there is nothing else they can do about it except maybe a spinal cord stimulator for the pain. My med board has been pretty smooth so far and I am now just waiting for the PEB to make their final decision. Everyone says they can see no way that I don't get 100% but I am unsure because back pain med boards can go either way. Keep holding out as long as possible!

 

[3E3Cripple]

Back pain sucks, and it seems the military doesn't make it any better. Same case here as some of you above. Being med-boarded for lumbar spine and radiculopathy. I applaud you all for refusing surgery as long as possible. I tried to refuse it as long as possible, but ended up having it last March and it ruined my life. The full details are in a post that I made, but I tried everything before having surgery. Six epidurals, medial branch nerve block, RFA at 6 facets, aquatic therapy for a full year and just continued to get worse. Finally elected to have a microdiscectomy in March and woke up from surgery way worse than I went in. The surgeon hit my L5/S1 nerve root bundle at the DRG with the high speed burr and rendered my lower left leg basically inoperable. There was also a bacteria introduced into the surgical site that went undiagnosed for 4 months. This completely dissolved what was left of the disc and infected the L5 and S1 vertebrae. I was hospitalized when they found it and given a PICC line and strong antibiotics for 8 weeks through IV. Once the infection was clear I was sent in for a fusion and facetectomy. Basically they completely had to cut out the joint between the two vertebrae and bolt it all together. To this day my lower left leg still doesn't work and I have no control of my foot. My left leg has atrophied noticeably compared to the right and I have been told there is nothing else they can do about it except maybe a spinal cord stimulator for the pain. My med board has been pretty smooth so far and I am now just waiting for the PEB to make their final decision. Everyone says they can see no way that I don't get 100% but I am unsure because back pain med boards can go either way. Keep holding out as long as possible!

That’s wild. I elected not to get surgery because of people in my unit that had the surgery and ended up making the pain worse and adding other issues. I get told the same, that there’s no way I don’t get 100% but as you mentioned it really does go either way. I have several other injuries and I’ve had a full proximal row carpectomy on my wrist which removed carpal bones and limited the mobility to maybe 40% and now it’s causing a lot of pain, weakness and loss of grip strength.

 

[OrdieChief]

That’s wild. I elected not to get surgery because of people in my unit that had the surgery and ended up making the pain worse and adding other issues. I get told the same, that there’s no way I don’t get 100% but as you mentioned it really does go either way. I have several other injuries and I’ve had a full proximal row carpectomy on my wrist which removed carpal bones and limited the mobility to maybe 40% and now it’s causing a lot of pain, weakness and loss of grip strength.

So, I got my results and my back only came out to about 50%. Out of all of the things that have happened with my back, and the radiculopathy that has rendered my lower left leg basically useless, they only see that as 50% disabling. I did get 100% P&T but there were a lot of other things that got me there, my back which everyone said was 100% on it's own was basically only half that. Make sure if you have back issues that you don't rely on that alone because the back will rarely get you there by itself.

 

[3E3Cripple]

That’s cool that you at least got the 100 P&T. I wasn’t expecting my back to get 100. That’s why I’ve been collecting all the documents on injuries I’ve had due to deployments and nature of my job.

 

[3E3Cripple]

So, I got my results and my back only came out to about 50%. Out of all of the things that have happened with my back, and the radiculopathy that has rendered my lower left leg basically useless, they only see that as 50% disabling. I did get 100% P&T but there were a lot of other things that got me there, my back which everyone said was 100% on it's own was basically only half that. Make sure if you have back issues that you don't rely on that alone because the back will rarely get you there by itself.

I know medical focuses on the one injury that starts the MEB process; however, were you able to basically add the other injuries you had to the back issue? Or did they focus on the back and then the VA focuses on the main injury and the secondary conditions? I start my first appointment next week to begin the process, so I’m trying to figure out what I can bring to the table.

 

[thanks4urhelp]

I know medical focuses on the one injury that starts the MEB process; however, were you able to basically add the other injuries you had to the back issue? Or did they focus on the back and then the VA focuses on the main injury and the secondary conditions? I start my first appointment next week to begin the process, so I’m trying to figure out what I can bring to the table.

Not sure what OrdieChief might say about his process on this aspect but in my experience the DoD is going to only acknowledge my DDD while the VA is going to recognize both DDD and radiculopathy. I'll quote a piece of my C&P reconciliation:

DEGENERATIVE DISC DISORDER THORACIC SPINE; LOW BACK PAIN, UNSPECIFIED (MEB REFERRED); PAIN IN THORACIC SPINE (MEB REFERRED) ] Degenerative disc disease other than intervertebral disc syndrome (IVDS); Lumbosacral strain; lumbar radiculopathy, bilateral lower extremities;
[MEBAA: The SM was referred to neurosurgery for intermittent radicular symptoms. Radiculopathy was not diagnosed by (REDACTED PROVIDER). If new information becomes available, it may be considered by the PEB. At this time, there is insufficient information on which to base a Narsum for radiculopathy.]

To clarify what that blurb means, the VA examined me for the following claims:

DEGENERATIVE DISC DISORDER THORACIC SPINE; LOW BACK PAIN, UNSPECIFIED (MEB REFERRED); PAIN IN THORACIC SPINE (MEB REFERRED)

and diagnosed me with "Degenerative disc disease other than intervertebral disc syndrome (IVDS); Lumbosacral strain; lumbar radiculopathy, bilateral lower extremities;"

One to one on my 526 form it was related to low back pain, thoracic back pain, and bilateral leg pain and numbness claims. While I had extensive documentation about my disc issues, I only went to medical once for shooting pains and other numbness. Because of this, there wasn't much reason for my neurosurgeon to go out of his way to look at me for radiculopathy when we were doing my work up for surgery consideration on my spine.

The nice part about this process is it keeps you from needing to run to medical on the way out to document everything. I simply claimed all the issues I had or at the very least thought I had, and let the VA doctors do their investigations. Some claims were thrown out with no diagnosis, but most of them had some kind of diagnostic that came from them. I think 3 of my claims didn't meet diagnostic criteria of just over 20 claims, though many of them got grouped together (DDD, pain in thoracic and low back pain will be grouped into one)

 

[3E3Cripple]

So, I got my results and my back only came out to about 50%. Out of all of the things that have happened with my back, and the radiculopathy that has rendered my lower left leg basically useless, they only see that as 50% disabling. I did get 100% P&T but there were a lot of other things that got me there, my back which everyone said was 100% on it's own was basically only half that. Make sure if you have back issues that you don't rely on that alone because the back will rarely get you there by itself.

I know medical focuses on the one injury that starts the MEB process; however, were you able to basically add the other injuries you had to the back issue? Or did they focus on the back and then the VA focuses on the main injury and the secondary conditions?

Not sure what OrdieChief might say about his process on this aspect but in my experience the DoD is going to only acknowledge my DDD while the VA is going to recognize both DDD and radiculopathy. I'll quote a piece of my C&P reconciliation:

DEGENERATIVE DISC DISORDER THORACIC SPINE; LOW BACK PAIN, UNSPECIFIED (MEB REFERRED); PAIN IN THORACIC SPINE (MEB REFERRED) ] Degenerative disc disease other than intervertebral disc syndrome (IVDS); Lumbosacral strain; lumbar radiculopathy, bilateral lower extremities;
[MEBAA: The SM was referred to neurosurgery for intermittent radicular symptoms. Radiculopathy was not diagnosed by (REDACTED PROVIDER). If new information becomes available, it may be considered by the PEB. At this time, there is insufficient information on which to base a Narsum for radiculopathy.]

To clarify what that blurb means, the VA examined me for the following claims:

DEGENERATIVE DISC DISORDER THORACIC SPINE; LOW BACK PAIN, UNSPECIFIED (MEB REFERRED); PAIN IN THORACIC SPINE (MEB REFERRED)

and diagnosed me with "Degenerative disc disease other than intervertebral disc syndrome (IVDS); Lumbosacral strain; lumbar radiculopathy, bilateral lower extremities;"

One to one on my 526 form it was related to low back pain, thoracic back pain, and bilateral leg pain and numbness claims. While I had extensive documentation about my disc issues, I only went to medical once for shooting pains and other numbness. Because of this, there wasn't much reason for my neurosurgeon to go out of his way to look at me for radiculopathy when we were doing my work up for surgery consideration on my spine.

The nice part about this process is it keeps you from needing to run to medical on the way out to document everything. I simply claimed all the issues I had or at the very least thought I had, and let the VA doctors do their investigations. Some claims were thrown out with no diagnosis, but most of them had some kind of diagnostic that came from them. I think 3 of my claims didn't meet diagnostic criteria of just over 20 claims, though many of them got grouped together (DDD, pain in thoracic and low back pain will be grouped into one)

Ahh ok. Yeah sounds similar to my back issues. I suppose what I’m asking or trying to figure out is, would I be able to tie my wrist along with my back to my MEB? As in, would they allow two separate conditions for an MEB?

 

[thanks4urhelp]

I know medical focuses on the one injury that starts the MEB process; however, were you able to basically add the other injuries you had to the back issue? Or did they focus on the back and then the VA focuses on the main injury and the secondary conditions?

Ahh ok. Yeah sounds similar to my back issues. I suppose what I’m asking or trying to figure out is, would I be able to tie my wrist along with my back to my MEB? As in, would they allow two separate conditions for an MEB?

In order to get your condition added to your board, you would have to articulate/get a medical opinion that it prevents you from doing your job. The back is much easier to articulate. Short of the joint being rendered useless from pain or something like that it would be hard to argue to get that condition added.

For Marines we go to our VA C&P exams, and whenever our contractor sends our exams to the VA and returns all the paperwork, the exam results populate as DBQs on our limited duty tracker. Then a doctor at the MEB level examines everything in relation to our medical records and decides if something else should be added to the board. Sometimes things do get added, but I would lean to saying it's less common for the first doctor to add things. You can request an impartial medical review to get another doctor to review things, but I'm not certain about how that process looks since I rejected that offer. I would ask your lawyer/PEBLO.

Question if that's worth it or not though. If you're over that 30% threshold from your back it's not really worth the fight. The back jumps from a 20% rating to a 40% rating, and to qualify for the 40% rating you need to have less than 30 degrees of forward flexion in your back. Mine was labeled as 12 degrees, with pain beginning at a marked 0 degrees for each flexion. My PCM expects me to get 40% with my lawyer agreeing.

 

[USAF_61]

My PEBLO has been not very informative in what to expect. All i know as of now is is my IRILO package has been signed and sent off. Where do i fall into the timeline and what should i expect? Thanks in advance!

 

[OrdieChief]

I know medical focuses on the one injury that starts the MEB process; however, were you able to basically add the other injuries you had to the back issue? Or did they focus on the back and then the VA focuses on the main injury and the secondary conditions? I start my first appointment next week to begin the process, so I’m trying to figure out what I can bring to the table.

Medical does focus on the main injury but I was able to get the others added without having to do an IMR. I just talked to my referring physician about all the issues and he added three more conditions, so my MEB was for 4 conditions all related to the back. My conditions were Lower Back Pain related to DDD, Radiculopathy bilateral due to lower back issues, Osteomyelitis of a spinal joint, and post operative pain following surgery. That was all added by my physician and the MEBA concurred so in total I had 4 conditions which were all combination rated at 50%.

 

[MrsG]

My PEBLO has been not very informative in what to expect. All i know as of now is is my IRILO package has been signed and sent off. Where do i fall into the timeline and what should i expect? Thanks in advance!

Hello! You came to the right place. It sounds like you are currently waiting on APFC to decide "proceed with full MEB" or "return to duty". This usually takes 2 weeks. Your PEBLO will communicate AFPC's decision. Assuming you get "proceed with full MEB", that's when you will be given a FL-4 date and things will really start.

 

[NavySubs2004]

For all the folks that posted here in back, lower and mid, what was the significance of your ROM evaluation? I was referred to MEB last week for my back wondering what to expect. Over 20 active duty, so I want to hit the threshold for concurrent pay.

Thanks

 

[thanks4urhelp]

For all the folks that posted here in back, lower and mid, what was the significance of your ROM evaluation? I was referred to MEB last week for my back wondering what to expect. Over 20 active duty, so I want to hit the threshold for concurrent pay.

Thanks

The entire basis of the rating is on ROM or ankylosis. You need to have less than 30 degrees of forward flexion specifically to hit 40%, otherwise the highest you'll get is 20%.

 

[NavySubs2004]

The entire basis of the rating is on ROM or ankylosis. You need to have less than 30 degrees of forward flexion specifically to hit 40%, otherwise the highest you'll get is 20%.

Thanks, I guess I knew that, just seems low for as severe as they are being described so I guess I was wondering how bad is the range of motion. And does the radiculopathy get added as part of the disqualifying condition? So if 50% back + the per leg %